Difficult Conversations, Part 1

>As an author still working on the book that will be queried with, I worry about this each time I start out on another story. As I've edited this last book that I wrote (I think I'm on round 4 or 5 of edits), I've wondered if the book is the right one to be published with. I think the conversation is at least pretty similar when the book comes back from a beta read and the reader says something's off with the book.

My response has been to set the project aside and let it stew, talk about it with unbiased parties, and to generally just keep plugging away. I'm finishing up a novella-length story right now and have gotten halfway through world-building for a different story that is floating around.

This response might change in the day that I have an agent, but probably not drastically. Even with an agent, I'd probably set the book aside at least for a week or two and let it just sit there in the back of my mind while I focus elsewhere. There will always be words in my head that I need to get out on the page. Every word serves to make even those not-quite-right manuscripts better.

>I can imagine it but boy would it hurt. So many months and hours of work go into it. But I can imagine how hard it would be to tell the author that it won't work, at least for now.

Blessings,
Mel
Please feel free to stop by: Trailing After God

>I'm worried about this right now. Publisher has my second manuscript and I'm waiting on pins and needles.

Especially because it's quite different from my first book. Darker, older YA, and it deals with some really tough social issues.

You'd think after you finally break into publishing that it would get easier. It doesn't. It just changes.

Still, wouldn't go back. Not for anything.

>It's so great to get this kind of warning before we land in that conversation. The closest conversation I've had happened just tonight actually. My husband finished a manuscript and (essentially) said, "Huh. Maybe if you just rewrote it from X's perspective…?" I said some abrupt things about his understanding of "JUST rewriting," but the sad thing was I immediately recognized how much better it would be! Darn it! I think for now I'll table it and come back in a few months to see if I have the stamina to rewrite. (The horror…)
It hadn't occurred to me to anticipate the flat no from an agent; I'm glad I read this tonight, puts everything in perspective.

>This is my worst fear. I guess my response would be to scream and cry and beat my fists against the wall. Then I'd swear black and blue that my agent / editor didn't understand what a good book should look like. Then I'd moan to my friends and my Mum who loved the book. Then, after digesting it for a few days, I'd suck it up and accept that my editor / agent probably know a lot more than I do.

>I guess it's all part of the writing journey. I'd be grateful that an agent can see what's wrong. I don't know what I'd do after that, but it would depend on how much I believed in the book.

>The call my agent had to make in regards to my work was that my genre had died and thatmy publisher would not back my novel with advertising dollars (or excitement). Looking back, I realize that my publisher was very honorable about a difficult situation.

After that call, I accumulated additional sad calls about my new efforts in different genres not quite getting there. Prayer and the hope I was investing in my WIP ("Next time!") always helped the hurt.

>That would be hard! For the writer and for you. I think though, it's one of those things, that will hurt really, really bad upon hearing it. But with some distance and some time, the writer will start to understand. Sort of like our first book. So many of us are sure our first book is great. We send out queries and discover maybe it's not so great after all. It's a hard, hard thing. But looking back, I'm so happy my first book never saw the light of day.

Time is always generous when it comes to handing out a healthy dose of perspective.

>This is one reason why I’m grateful I’m prolific. I’m not stuck on any one book and ideas for new ones just keep coming. However, as Katie mentioned, it would bite. Plain and simple. For me this is why establishing a relationship with an agent I trust is so important. My agent would know me well enough to know I’m a fighter and I’d get back in the game with another book.
~ Wendy

>Everyone knows I'm a fan of self-publishing, but I think taking the self-publishing route in a situation like this may just be denial. The only time that self-publishing might help in a situation like this is if the book is targeted at a niche audience that the author happens to be able to reach better than the publisher. If I were the publisher, that is a risk I would be willing to take. A tried author who can reach an audience I can't? That's a no brainer. The author putting out the book anyway isn't going to help. When readers begin thinking that the author is getting lazy, they quit buying the author's books.

>I know that this is a difficult conversation to hear, but this is one of my least favorite conversations to have as an agent. In reading the comments here, I feel moved to write and say that you should remember that your agent is ON YOUR SIDE. If your agent is saying this, it's not just a question of personal taste, but what we honestly feel is best for your career. When I've had these conversations with my clients–and it's happened many times–it has always been an open, honest discussion about the market, my author's style, brand, career goals, etc. I WANT them to succeed. This is a tough conversation to have, no doubt, but sometimes it's necessary an it's part of the job. My clients count on me to help guide them and I think I'd be doing them a disservice if I just let them put everything they wrote out there without thinking it through strategically. In most cases, we've agreed. But it doesn't make the initial discussion any less difficult.

>I'm not a writer here, but i do respect those that are, well some anyway. My question is this, could you write a book if you thought it might be very popular and profitable even though you were not into the subject. Be honest now, so does it then just become a job or a source of income. Richard from Lebanon county's Amish community.

>*book not boom! LOL (blame the iPad)

>That would be a huge OUCH, but I'd rather go through the pain than have a mediocre book published without realizing it. That could be a nightmare.

>Thank you for posting this. It's easy to forget that delivering bad news can be painful too. I know my agent is on my side. Which is why I'll try to brace myself for tough love, if and when it comes.

>Katy McKenna: The situation varies depending on if the author is already contracted for the book or not; if it's due to the publisher; if it's being read by the agent or the editor.

Certainly if it's a contracted book, and the deadline is imminent, then we need to get it to the publisher. But if it's not good, then the conversation I discussed in the post is the same, it's just with the editor instead of the agent.

But the book might not be contracted yet, as in a case where an author has come to the end of their previous contract and the agent is going to be seeking a new contract for them, either with the same publisher or with a different one. This is a case where the quality of that book is of the utmost importance because the author is looking for a new contract. Decisions must be carefully made, even if it's hard.

>Wow, Rachelle, This sounds like a tough conversation for both the author and the editor/agent.

One question that comes to mind is how this could crop up after the author has written the entire manuscript. I was under the impression that a published author typically submits a proposal and sample chapters before writing the story. Rachel's comment touched on this when she said that sometimes the story she proposes comes out on paper differently.

I'd be curious to know how often this occurs even after those proposals and sample chapters have been approved.

Thanks for another great blog post! Off to retweet it…

>All hail the mighty nom de plume If it's a dud book, then probably it SHOULD be shelved if not scrapped. If it's a case of genre, rock on pen name.

To my mind it seems an intimate understanding between agent and writer should be in place, because the agent needs to know not just the author but the industry. For the agent, we ask a lot. For the author, agent knows it's your rep at stake. Us writer types rely that the agent has the wisdom on our behalf, and so much more.

For author's it's like standing on a street-corner sometimes wearing a sign asking for life-saving help But truth is necessary, and it's vital not to buck if the face of it too often! If my agent told me I had a dud, I'd be asking what could be done – if anything.

>Sarah Forgrave: Every situation is different. Sample chapters may have been "approved" but then the book itself didn't pan out.

>Do you see "next" books only once they're complete? Or would you work with an author to shape (to some degree) subsequent books? I guess I sort of pictured working with my agent to get advice and feedback all along and along. Seems like this would prevent writing something that just wouldn't sell . . . ?

>bound to happen to me at some point–i think it's going to happen every time, in fact!

after i'd behaved like a diva in private–strictly in private I'd re-read it and perhaps work on it.. depending–my genre is quite accepting you see, and then would offer it to another publisher. My particular agent doesn't have a contract with all my work, just a book to book basis.

>Good news is always good, but bad news is an opportunity for growth. I covet an honest evaluation. There are millions of words in the English language – surely I can come up with a more pleasing arrangement if I know what to shoot for. Thanks, Rachelle for your encouragement.

>Is it inevitable that every writer will face this at some point? Is there a way to avoid writing a book that won't sell? For example, if you want to write a different genre, should you always use a pseudonym? I know Lori Wick has been successful at writing a variety and so has DiAnn Mills.

I know there's nothing 100%, but surely there are some helpful tips to keep a writer on track. I'm working on my first WIP, so I haven't reached that point in my career yet, but I'd like to be prepared for it.

>I would first be devastated. I'd be licking my wounds for a couple of minutes, hours, days. Perhaps throw in some curse words in private. Then I would come to my senses, realizing that my dear agent might be right… so I read through the said MS. In the end I know, the agent IS right.

Maybe someday I could say I loved getting ugly critique. Right now I admit I would prefer praise and good reviews. But I know what I wanted the most is to get better at my craft. And for that, I'll deal with the pain.

>I suspect in my writing career this conversation would be well into the future. I'd have to have a first book contracted first, and I don't see that happening any time soon. So how would I respond to such a conversation? I suppose it depends on the situation. If this was a book under contract, I'd have to set about doing what was needed so as to not be in breach of contract. If it was a book on spec, I suppose I'd 1) take the advice to heart and see what I could do to improve the book, and 2) find another outlet to publish it.

>I would appreciate being told the truth no matter if it is something I want to hear or not. The truth sets you free.

>That would be a tough one for sure, but w/ my general Eeyore attitude in life, I would expect it. I hope for the best and expect the worst–that way I'm never completely crushed. I'm not really like Eeyore, anyway, because I believe that things happen for a reason. God has a better plan than I have.

>I love this post and the comments it has generated from other agents/editors. I often have to adjust the way I look at writing and publication, and this is such a crucial one. I would much rather be published well than to be published quick. And that should help me deal with these kinds of conversations.

Incidentally, I'm so thrilled you wrote this post, Rachelle. Your tweet last week that you hated hard convos with your authors had me burning with curiosity as to what those kind of convos might entail and if I should be prepared for them with my agent. Thanks so much for elaborating here.

>@Timothy and Rachelle,

I definitely don’t believe that a rejected book should be self-published out of a sense of defensiveness, but out of belief that the book could possibly succeed. As Katherine mentioned above, if it’s a problem with marketing rather than quality, this might be the time to just see what happens in the e-pub market. I want to brand myself as a contemporary romance author, but if I wanted to dabble in paranormal romance or even romantic sci-fi, e-publishing might be a worthy experimental endeavor – as long as I didn’t tell a living soul. ☺

And Rachelle, you are right. There are some books that are unsalvageable. I was asked to work on a project, and the entire premise of the book was … I can’t say this any other way: it was racist. I knew that no publisher would take it on, and I wasn’t going to, either. On the creepier and slightly nauseating side, there’s actually a hefty niche demand for this specific type of fiction. A lot of it’s been e-published and is highly successful.

>I'd ask why. Rachelle gave a few examples, but there might be some other reason that might be specific to your book that you could learn from.

Also, you could learn a lot about your agent. By knowing how he or she views your work, especially the work that they don't feel they could represent, you'd be that much better at communicating with them going forward about your work.

>I imagine at some point it's bound to happen to me. Not every book can be a winner. It'll be a let down, but I'd rather my agent tell me right away that the book isn't going to fly. That way I can start on the next one. After discussing with her why she thinks that book didn't work and doing a little strategizing on how to make the next one more marketable of course

>As anyone in ANY business knows…you are only as good as your last (insert whatever here). Even authors, you are judged by your last book or novel. I think it's kinder to say "no deal" than to put out something that is not going to work/sell and it would cause irreputable damage to your career.

Yes as authors we spend quite a bit of our time, writing, editing, researching, but if it's bad it's bad. Not everything that I write is good, I know this and accept it. Everyone can have a bad day, month, or even years.

About self publishing- well, there is the rub. Too many authors are just throwing whatever out there. There are a few great self published books, but many are trash which should have stayed under a bed or tucked into a drawer. Horrible to say this about authors, because I am now a self-published author, but it's true. I self-publish to test the market, and then if I'm good enough I MIGHT be found, but I really do not expect it.

I honestly feel great sorrow for agents and publishers. They do not have an easy job of telling people their babies are ugly.

>My agent has given me me very extensive editorial notes on my second book (much more so than the first.) It requires lots of rewriting, which I'm fine about, because the comments make a lot of sense to me. My question is this– are there agents who just don't want to tell a client something's not good enough and will offer revision notes regardless? (Am feeling lots of self-doubt these days, obviously. Just wondering if I have such a nice agent that he/she didn't want to have that difficult phone call.)

>It would be hard to set an entire manuscript aside, but at the same time, if someone in the industry is telling me it's not going to work, then I am going to listen.

I have read authors and totally loved them, just to have them switch up on me and I lost interest. This is not something we want as writers, as we will lose our fan base.

That is why I prefer to let people read as I am writing. That way I get feedback, and if the story isn't working, I can start over or start something new. I have rewritten about 200 pages before, just to make what I wanted to put out more believable. So, I'd suck it up and move on. It happens.

>Love this post. Very interesting and offers lots to think about.

>Great article. I had something in that vein happen with my first solo Star Trek novel. Sent it in on time and got it back with about 40 pages of "corrections" (essentially they felt it wasn't "quite" the novel they'd anticipated) and did an entire manuscript rewrite in two weeks. Taught me a lot and made me a better writer.

As far as self-publishing goes, I can see both sides. When I failed to sell my novel "Weathercock," I did opt to self-publish and am glad I did. This is a story I believe in profoundly and so far it's done well. Self-marketing is exhausting, but it's part of the game now, whether one self-publishes or not, so maybe it's good that I'm learning it now.
Whatever route a writer chooses to take, s/he must be ready (and willing) to realize that a story isn't up to snuff, and recognize when it is salvageable and when it isn't. Sometimes you just don't want to let go. That could be stubbornness….or it could mean you have a gem hidden inside all that rock.

>This really shouldn't be a tough conversation. Well, at least no tougher than having your doctor tell you to lose weight or stop smoking. It's for your own good. I'd hope if I had an agent I could trust, she/he wouldn't let me walk out of the bathroom with my skirt hem tucked up around my waist or let me publish a stinky book that's destined to flop.
Good friends watch your back…trust them.

>One of the reasons I favor traditional publishing is because every once in a while, we all need someone to give us this kind of hard news. It’s impossible for an artist of any kind to look at their own creation objectively. I would genuinely hope that once I get to the point where I’m publishing, I have people around me who will save me from major career mistakes like this before they are public and on the shelf … and who believe in me enough to know that I can create something better!

>when a book doesn't work it means you did something wrong. i've hit this point before, several times actually. once i had to completely start over with new characters, a new setting, and a new plot. so few things remained the same. i still have my old manuscript but MAN IS THE NEW ONE BETTER.

another example: i started writing and i made the ending happen in the middle. then i kept writing. it started to feel empty and choppy.

so every time something doesn't work, i go back to the last part that DID work, and i go a different direction. same with writer's block. i start where it was flowing smoothly, and then i change something. both of these cases (a book not working, and writer's block) are my characters' ways of saying "hey, wait, that's not how it goes."

And they always have the final say.

>Ioana, "publishers" or "agents" who contact you and want money to publish you are not legitimate. Money flows to the author, not the other way around. So you're probably lucky you didn't end up signing with those people.

I have known a number of people whose agents have turned down their subsequent works for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's because of how it fits into the market (ie, it doesn't). Sometimes it's because another book or movie has come out that, while not the same story, is close enough in genre/special characteristics that it won't be able to compete. Sometimes it's…I don't know why. More than once, I've read a ms for an author and it's been my favorite book by them yet, but the agents have nixed it. Sometimes it's because the agent only represents a small slice of what the author writes. I've actually seen this a number of times: agent is mostly a romance agent but skims into YA (which is profitable right now, surely–not to mention the fact that it intersects nicely with romance). But then the author wants to write a boy YA thriller, or a historical YA or something more literary, or *gasp* even a MG. And while it's not out of range for a kidlit author, it's not really where the agent's specialty falls. And that's where hard conversations happen all around.

I think if you're having this conversation with your agent (speaking from the author's POV), it's important to trust your agent's expertise, but it's also important to find out WHY the book isn't working, so you can forestall issues next time around. Is it the writing? The market? A mismatch of genres between author and agent? Or something else entirely?

It hurts a lot, though.